IRIS Covet Book

DAO-YI CHOW AND MAXWELL OSBORNE OF PUBLIC SCHOOL NYC

Born and bred purveyors of New York cool, Public School are surpassing their own successes by delivering their signature synergy of street and substance to their women’s collections.

Photography by Bon Duke | Styling by Kate Carnegie | Featuring Models Ana Christina @ New York Models, Sahara Lin @ Elite Models, Jordan Legessa @ Heroes | Interview by Alan Bindler
All Clothing by Public School NYC

Luxury Streetwear. To an outsider, it can seem an oxymoron of sorts. The history of streetwear is long and storied, the specifics of which are hotly debated in the comments sections of 21st century cultural hubs like Complex and Hypebeast. Born out of surf and skate culture of the late 1970s and infused with urban wear aesthetics of the 1990s, luxury streetwear combines these influences with the timeless quality and craftsmanship one would expect from European maisons. Founded in 2008 and relaunched in 2012, Public School has been evolving the genre to great accolades for nearly a decade, defining what is cool and coveted by a rising generation of luxury consumers. Originally a men’s label, designers Dao-Yi Chow and Maxwell Osborne launched their women’s line in Fall 2014, marking a seamless transition for the go-to brand of born-and-bred New York cool. 2017 is a benchmark year for Public School, with the volume of their women’s business about to surpass the men’s. Here, Iris Covet Book chats with the duo about designing for women, why luxury streetwear is so relevant now, and the new definition of luxury.

I understand that this year the women’s business is surpassing the men’s business. Do you think that’s going to affect how you show the brand in the future and the overall brand story?

Maxwell Osborne: I think in the longer term, for us, yeah, women’s business is growing and it has turned into a bigger business than our men’s business, which we kind of knew would happen going into it, and I think we just change with the times and really figure out what’s best with us in terms of how you show and release products. And I think that’s also just a sign of where we are in general in the marketplace and how women and men shop, and how our retailers buy the products. So it’s not surprising that our women’s business is bigger than our men’s business. I think we’ll always be known as a menswear brand first and foremost, but it’s actually also refreshing to have the women’s business grow at the pace it’s been growing.

Can you speak a little bit more about this and your vision for who your female customer is?

MO: Actually, it’s evolving. Our women’s business is still so new, so we’re still learning more information about our Public School Girl. We’re finding out now it’s actually Public School Women as well. They blend, and now we’re learning that Public School is not just a girl line, it’s also a woman’s line, maybe even more so than we thought. So we’re continually learning about our own brand through the people that wear it and buy it. Right now our lines have been blurred in terms of who the girl is. It’s really just this girl who’s transformed into a woman. It’s great to watch.

That’s exciting. It’s almost as if your customer is growing with you.

MO: Yeah, basically. They’re maturing with us, for sure. Do you have any specific muses? MO: I think we have a lot of different ideas of who this woman is – there’s not just one specific girl, but it’s the girl on the go, the girl who lives in a metropolitan city, who knows what’s up and goes from work to drinks, or work to dinner to an art gallery to a party and never really has to change. She’s comfortable in her own skin. Obviously all very cliché, but that’s exactly who we design for in terms of being a New Yorker or being in Tokyo or another big city. Just a girl that’s on the move and very comfortable in what she does. She’s not just one girl. It’s the girl of many faces.

What are some things you find yourself thinking about when you’re designing for women that you didn’t think about when you were designing exclusively for men?

MO: The idea of ease and femininity is something that we never really thought about for men. We’ve kind of softened that up because a lot of women just want to be feminine. And it’s like, what’s the reason you’re buying a Public School women’s dress? We’re not floral and ruffles all the time. We’re different than that. So what’s our take on that? I think that’s the challenge we always have. A good challenge in designing for women, for our customers, is what’s that line of femininity which also makes it very Public School. So we’re always challenging ourselves and figuring out that piece.

In today’s market, department stores, even luxury ones, are full of sale racks. When you go to an industry trade show, it’s a sea of booths for small labels that no one may ever hear of; It can be kind of easy to get discouraged from a designer’s perspective. Do you ever feel that? That there’s just so much out there, and how do you find that voice?

MO: Yeah, we do feel like that. To be a designer and also be conscious of what’s going on, and knowing that nobody really needs to produce another piece of clothing in this world because we have enough to survive. But at the same time you can’t say that because it’s what you do and it’s what you love. It’s refreshing when you see a brand that has a clear voice and understanding of who they are, as opposed to a bunch of brands that are just doing the same thing and fighting for the same thing. I think that gets a little frustrating. Not discouraging, but more frustrating. As an artist, you want to see other people get excited and inspired. It’s exciting when you see a brand that has its own voice, its own creativity, and its own lane.

Public School is a luxury brand, influenced by a streetwear aesthetic. Some would call that ironic, as there are certain socioeconomic factors that come into play there. Also, when a brand is streetwear influenced, there’s a certain authenticity and exclusivity that contributes to the price point, as well as the quality. How do you balance that, and do you have any thoughts on the irony of having to appeal to a “cool” consumer, but also a consumer that can spend a certain amount of money on products of this quality?

MO: The quality and fabrication help dictate those prices, so showing a baseball cap, but in a different fabric, automatically takes it to a designer price because you used designer fabric. We’ve always tried to blend what we love, like the streets and the highs and the lows — for sure. That’s what we always want to do. We just try to blend those pieces in and own our lane. It’s not just street, it’s not just high fashion or designer. It’s just a mosh pit of it all, all in one. And look at the market place – I’m trying to think of any street brands that are like, really street, but offer high-end pricing without the quality matching. Usually it’s just inspired by the street but still very much luxury. You can say that for Vetements, especially; these ideas of street pieces but done in a not-so-street way. It’s not just a basic French terry, there’s always more elements to it, so it makes sense to me, it warrants that. I don’t think of it as streetwear at luxury pricing for no reason. There is a reason for it.

Dao-Yi Chow: There’s perceived value and there’s inherent value. From a streetwear standpoint, I think brands that have been able to take the perceived value, and take the product up to a luxury price point, I think that’s been the magic or allure of what those brands do. But what we do, it’s inherent value; from the fabrications, from where we’re making the clothes, from the trim that we’re developing… there’s tangible reasons why the things cost what they do. I think that there’s a distinction between those two. You have brands or designers who are able to charge more money for goods and position it from a luxury standpoint based on a perceived value, and whether the actual clothes do or do not merit the price points – it’s not my place to say. For the most part, we try to price everything based on what they cost us.

Luxury and designer clothing used to be reserved for a certain segment of the population, and obviously from an economic standpoint it still is, but this explosion, for lack of a better word, of luxury streetwear, what is that telling us about society? How is that a reflection of the changing face of the luxury consumer?

DC: I think it’s sort of a breakdown of barriers, judgement, and people – streetwear is streetwear because it’s what’s happening now. That’s what streetwear has been – what is happening on the street right now. How do we address it, and how do we take that messaging culturally and turn that into something you wear on your body? And so I think that there’s a breakdown of what people think is important now. What used to be important is no longer important, and so in a lot of ways the barriers are down and people can just sort of be who they are and not feel like they have to pretend.

So there’s not a specific mold for the luxury consumer anymore?

DC: Yeah, I think that’s also from a consumer standpoint, that people are not like, “oh, it’s from this European house and it costs $2,000 and that means that it’s luxury.” Luxury has opened up. The definition of what luxury is has broadened.

There’s a lot of conversation now in fashion press with regards to sustainability and technology. Beyond recycled textiles, what’s the future of fashion as you guys see it with regards to these topics? How do you see the industry evolving, and how are you addressing it in your own work?

DC: The fashion industry in general needs to figure out how to affect its carbon imprint on the world. We were actually in Copenhagen at a summit on fashion sustainability. So for us, it needs to start with being responsible, and not just being responsible in the things we do and create but being responsible for what we imagine, think about, and ideate. Nothing is being created without the thought or the intent, so the intent needs to come from a sustainable place, and we try to work with as few factories as possible. We try to have visibility and clarity on where the products that we’re using are coming from, but ultimately we are not 100% guaranteed. We’re also in a business that makes things we really don’t need. That’s tough to say as a designer, as a person who has a career in fashion. What we do is not very sustainable at all. I think we’re trying to think about it more and affect it in ways where we’re looking at the life cycles of garments that we create and the materials they come from. In a couple of upcoming collaborations, that is sort of the main idea and the main rallying point that we’re trying to get behind. So I think in general, our thought process needs to be sustainable, the ideas need to be sustainable, and then subsequently what we produce and create off of those ideas will be more sustainable. But, at the same time, I wouldn’t say that we are torch bearers.

Speaking of collaborations, you’ve collaborated with a wide array of brands including Tumi, J. Crew, Oliver Peoples, Fitbit, Jordan – could you explain how collaborations really work and why you’re so drawn to doing them?

MO: You know, collaborations are obviously the meeting point in the middle of the two brands. Each brand shares in the other’s aesthetic, but for us when we do these collaborations we’re really just working with the best in what they do that actually fit our lifestyle outside of what we do. So, to work with Tumi, it’s easy because we travel so much, designing luggage was easy for us. It’s like, what do we want from our luggage? And we obviously pick and choose which ones are best for us and the brand. We grew up wearing Jordans. We travel all the time. I wear glasses all the time. So it comes from a true place. It’s not like we’re pulling them out of a hat just to do them. It’s actually coming from things that we’re going to use, and that’s how we design it. It’s how we’re going to use it. We’re not doing it for anybody else, really.

You have a collaboration with Moët that’s coming out also. Can you tell me a little bit more about that.

MO: We’re going to be drinking a lot. (laughs) I guess that’s a start, right? There’s the reason for that one.

DC: Moët is sort of a culmination of this idea of celebration for us, having moments to be able to celebrate and share with other people. And that process actually was really cool because we were able to travel out to Epernay where the wine and the champagne are made. And how the Maison treats it as such an artform. It was eye-opening to see that entire process and see how important that process is to the brand. That was one of the perks of being able to collab with a brand like Moët, which has hundreds and hundreds of years of experience and history.

You’ve been outspoken with regards to your support of Black Lives Matter, and your Fall runway show included caps printed with the slogan “Make America New York.” How important are political movements to fashion, both as an industry and also in direct relation to the clothes that we wear? And does one sort of inform the other?

MO: What’s going on in the current climate of the world is very much where we draw inspiration from. What’s going on right now is what we’re thinking about when designing those collections. We are aware of whatever is going on in the world, in our culture and that’s what we try to put on the runway. So, if it’s about politics then it’s about politics. Black Lives Matter, for me, was the moment when I was just really frustrated. I definitely could have been way more outspoken. It’s cool to have a voice and for it to be listened to for a second. For the runway when we did “Make America New York”– what’s great about New York is that it’s a city that is a melting pot and you can’t hide that fact.

You have a call to action that you label WNL, which has multiple meanings; Where New York Lives, We Need Leaders… Can you explain a little bit more about this?

MO: WNL just sort of started out as an internal mantra, and when we say call to action it’s not really a call to action to anyone else other than ourselves. Originally, it was just highlighting and focusing on friends of ours who we felt were leaders in their particular industry, from a creative standpoint. It’s slowly morphed into more than just a platform where, especially now in this climate, we can express and demonstrate whatever our feelings of activism are and align with other groups and organizations who feel similarly. It’s not meant to be a preachy thing at all and hopefully it doesn’t come off that way. But it’s a reminder to ourselves that we need to do something bigger than clothes or making money. I think it’s a helpful reminder for us to be able to focus on our career, while simultaneously focusing on helping each other or helping people who don’t have as much, or helping people to give a voice to those who might not have one.

And is there any specific charity or philanthropic initiative that you guys are currently working on or actively working on with Public School, as far as that’s concerned?

DC: We work with several organizations. There’s an organization that I’m a board member of that’s called Apex for Youth. It’s the largest Asian American mentoring program here in the states that provides mentorship and college preparation for children of all ethnicities, but focused on Asian Americans that live below the poverty line. We also work with the National Center for Learning Disabilities, and we are planning to partner with the ACLU. We donated the proceeds from the sales of our runway show hats to the ACLU. We’re trying to stay active.

For more information about Public School, please visit PublicSchoolNYC.com – Makeup/Grooming by Laura Stiassni using Sisley @The Wall Group, Hair by Lizzie Arneson @ BRIDGE using Oribe. Art Direction by Louis Liu, Editor Marc Sifuentes, Photographer’s 1st Assistant Mariah Postlethwaite, 2nd Assistant Tom McKiver, Photo Intern Jeremy Hall, BTS DP/Digital Manager Casey Showalter, Senior Digital Tech Nick Korompilas, Production by XTheStudio. Special Thanks to Pier59 Studios.

LEE DANIELS

Star of His Own Empire: Behind the scenes, Lee Daniels is protagonist of his own story and reinventing the Great American Musical along the way.

Photography by Diego Uchitel @ Jones Management | Styling by Rafael Linares @ Art Department | Interview by Alan Bindler

Suit and Shirt by Ron Tomson

West Side Story. Hair. Rent. Hamilton. Musicals have always reflected the times we live in. Passing on specific narratives as told by the people who have lived them is crucial to a society’s fabric, an entertaining amalgam of “real facts,” song and dance that often packs more truth than a public school history textbook. In this current Golden Age of Television, various portrayals of our society are being played out on screen to dizzying and oftentimes brutally honest effect. No one is synergizing these two factors better than Lee Daniels – the Academy Award nominated director and producer of Precious, Monster’s Ball, and The Paperboy, amongst others.

Empire, now in it’s fourth season and Star, in its second, are the hit television shows written and created by Daniels to confront the same topics splashed across newspaper headlines daily – sexual assault, racism, class divide – and are revolutionizing the industry with their interweaving of original music, fashion, and celebrity; using these as a backdrop to the gritty storylines that are holding a mirror up to the changing demographics of America.

Born in Philadelphia, his grandmother was a huge influence. In previous interviews, he has fondly described her as “a crooked politician“ and “gangster” who helped get the African- American community to vote at local levels in the 1960s during the Civil Rights movement. After the death of Daniels’ father, a policeman who beat him for being gay, his mother sent him to an upscale, white suburban high school, knowing he “couldn’t survive selling drugs.” A fund assembled by the Philadelphia police force had provided him with enough money for his first year and a half of college, and as an act of filial piety, Daniels found himself a girlfriend. The money ran out, and not wanting him to turn to the streets, she gave him seven dollars and a bus ticket to LA.

Living in the back of a church, he started working with the theatre program there to earn his keep. At the same time, he got a job as the receptionist for a nursing agency, a fact he attributed to using the “white voice” he learned in high school. Soon after, he went out on his own, founding his own agency and taking some of the nurses with him. At the height of the AIDS crisis, when other agencies were too scared to allow their nurses to work with HIV+ patients, Daniels’ became the first agency under AIDS Project LA. It made him a lot of money. That, united with a chance encounter with a connected Hollywood client, lead Daniels to sell his agency for “a couple of million.” His career in entertainment was born, starting with a PA job on the set of Prince’s Purple Rain and later moving up the ladder to Head of Minority Talent for Warner Bros.

Casting directing lead to managing, but when he got “tired of telling [African- American] actors that there weren’t any jobs for them,” Daniels transitioned into producing, hustling up the money to make Monster’s Ball, which garnered Halle Berry her history-making Best Actress Academy Award. Mining his own captivating life story, the goal in his work is to give the voiceless a voice, and to make viewers look at people that they normally wouldn’t.

“I’ll give you and feed you a political agenda, but with music, or with a sexy girl or a sexy boy or with some fashion. You will find yourself drawn and sucked into my world regardless of how you feel about me, through what you’re seeing and the audacity of it. Audacious is what it is that I try to be. Not shocking, but just showing shit to people that they don’t always get a chance to see, that other people are afraid to show…”, Daniels says. He is a truth teller, shit-talker, and skilled auteur, telling intimate stories that haven’t received such wide exposure until now.

Passionate as he is in bringing personal narratives to the screen, Daniels is also involved in several charities and nonprofit organizations. His work with the African American AIDS Institute (which is in danger of losing their funding) is a direct result of having lost most of his friends to the epidemic. “That I don’t have [HIV] is a miracle from God and I don’t know how I didn’t get it or haven’t gotten it… and I know that my work as an artist, my obligation isn’t just to my art and my craft but to my people,” he tells me candidly. This humility is also summoned when discussing his work with The Ghetto Film School, an award winning nonprofit that helps young filmmakers, which Daniels helped co-found with David O. Russell. They both still sit on the Board of Directors. “Because I didn’t go to film school, I didn’t have the luxury… I learned how to hold a camera by watching people as I produced films. To me this is not my gift. I don’t own it. I don’t own my art. My art is to pass on. My job in life is to pass it on to someone that will be far more talented than I. And so for me, the Ghetto Film School represents who it is that I am and what I have to do. It is my obligation to pass whatever gift that God has given me to others who haven’t been fortunate enough (to be able to) afford to go to film school.”

Speaking to him over the phone while he was in France for the Cannes Lions festival, I sense two things: one, that Mr. Daniels is extremely candid, as much so as his work; and two, that what Mr. Daniels doesn’t say is as important as what he does. He’s warm and spirited, with our conversation splitting off into tangents as numerous as his subplots. Here, we discuss embracing the grey areas of life, mortality, binge-watching… and a possible John Waters collaboration? With Lee Daniels, the element of surprise is as guaranteed as the controversy he brings to the screen.

There are times when I’m watching Star, specifically when they break into fantasy sequence musical numbers, that I really feel like I’m watching the 21st century incarnation of “The Great American Musical” … and yet this is about a very specific demographic. I pose this question in relation with a recent comment you made about wanting to be referred to as a “director” instead of a “Black director”, or a “creator” instead of a “Black creator”. Could you speak on how coming from a place of personal authenticity can translate to all people being able to relate, on a mass scale?

Yeah… it’s crazy… and this is what’s really frightening… It’s not the overt racists, that clearly one can see is racist, or clearly one can see is a gay basher… people with white masks, or people that don’t have a problem calling someone a nigger or a faggot… I’d rather see that, than those who truly don’t understand that they’re racist or homophobic. Those who really believe that they’re liberal and embracing of “the other,” and yet still take offense to my work. And ones that are in power that don’t see the problem. So for me, I’m the first to call someone out on that. That type there is the one that is scary, and I get in trouble with those people.

So in a way it’s almost as if your work is holding up a mirror to those that think they’re “woke…”

Yeah, because a lot of them ain’t woke!

You’re known for telling stories, and for giving a voice to controversial topics that haven’t been shared on the scale in which you’re sharing them. Do you ever feel you’re not giving enough time to one topic because there’s more emphasis placed on another?

Oh my God, I always feel like I’m rushing through a story, and I’m not giving enough time to a topic. There are so many subjects and atrocities to cover in America, and in our culture today. In film I can do it, in television I can’t. With Empire, it’s clearly about the kids in the empire. With Star, it’s about three girls struggling; but in the backdrop of that, we’re trying to tell stories that are politically important. That are important to what Americans need to see. Social topics are important. It’s hard to weave everything in.

How many other voices, particularly voices with power, and how many other opinions affect which stories you give priority to?

They sort of let me do my thing now. Which is the reason why I got into television from the very beginning. Danny Strong and I did Empire together and we had a very strong political agenda that was served. With Star I have a political agenda as well. When I am making the network uncomfortable, I know I’m doing my job. When Cookie descended from a cage in a gorilla suit from Central Park in the second season, beating her chest, and she rips off her outfit, and it’s Cookie dressed in Gucci couture and diamonds, saying that she felt like an animal in a cage because that’s how they’re treating us. The network freaked out! But that’s what I was feeling at the moment. I felt like my son, Taraji’s son, Terrence’s son, they were all Black men that were being targeted by the law at that time, so I wrote about it; I felt like we were all people in cages. But guess what? When she pulled off that gorilla suit, homegirl was in Gucci, head to toe, bejeweled in diamonds! I still laugh about Taraji screaming about getting into that monkey suit! But she did it because there’s no actor like her.

On that same subject, there’s a line in an episode of Star, the one with the Black Lives Matter protest, where Queen Latifah’s character says “You win by speaking the truth.” Your narrative, the specific narratives of the stories you tell are your truth. However, at a certain point that a creative achieves a certain level of fame – becomes mainstream, if you will – their narrative and their perspective sort of become “the narrative.” Are you worried about that at all with your work?

It’s terrifying because I didn’t realize that… you don’t know that you’re famous until you say something and it is completely taken out of context, and your kids are coming up to you and saying “why are they saying this ?”. And then there’s negative feedback from your own people. That’s really painful because you then realize you have an obligation to be politically correct in your agenda. And I’m not politically correct AT ALL. It can get me in trouble with my own people sometimes. And that’s inclusive of gays, I can get in trouble with the gay situation, I can get in trouble with the black situation, and you know… I’m sort of a loose cannon in that regard. It can get me sued. I’ve learned over the years to edit myself. And I don’t like editing myself. I’ve learned that some people just can’t handle too much of the truth. So I can only give them a little bit of the truth at a time. You’ve received criticism of topics you cover being “too left leaning” “too gay” etc… and these come from both sides of political and racial divides, different communities… Because I’m not going to sugarcoat a topic. I’m going to tell the truth from my perspective. Racism is not black or white. Homophobia is not black or white. There are grey areas that are there. Unless you take a specific stand on it that is pro or con, you get eggs thrown at you. So I’m very clear that there is a grey area. Because I embrace that grey area, I am criticized. I’ve learned to accept that, and it is what it is. There’s this one quote in which you reference your grandmother. You said you learned from her that “people aren’t good or bad, we all try to wake up in the morning to be the best person that we can be but we end up falling on our asses. No one is perfect. So my work has really been that grey area that we all are — that murky area that we all live in.

Is there anything else about that grey area that you can speak on?

Yeah (long pause). I know what I can talk about. I can talk about the grey area of parenting. I have two 21-year old kids, and oftentimes I feel like I have let them down as a parent. I’m constantly reminded that there’s no such thing as a great parent. You can only be the best parent that you can be. You see kids today, and this represents the millennial, and there’s a sense of entitlement that comes to these kids. Like “you owe me, give me, I’m here to take.” And there’s no work ethic there. I have wanted everything for my children that I did not have. And then you realize “Oh my god what have I done? I’ve created monsters,” not monsters but you know, like, entitled kids that are used to certain things. How will they be able to survive in the streets if I were to die tomorrow, you know, how will they survive? Not from a monetary standpoint, but how will they have the skillset to interact with people? So, now I find that I have to reteach things. My son didn’t know about racism at all until very recently. I had protected him from that by putting him in the schools that he went to. So now he sees it and he’s looking at me like, “why didn’t you talk to me about this?” Again, it goes into the grey area of life. I know that I’m not perfect but striving for perfection.

You’ve mentioned that before – how you have raised your own kids in this bubble where they had not known what it was like as far as what the real world had to bring; do you think that sort of affected how you tell stories, and if you were to make another Precious, now that your kids are older, how does that affect how you dive into these tough topics?

The most potent storytelling comes from a place of where I’m at right now in the moment. Empire came at a place where I was in that moment. It was important for me to tell that story because I needed to tell my family’s story at that moment. Star came at a time when I had to tell that story, and I’m still telling that story because I’m in that moment now. I’m not the guy that I was when I shot Precious. I don’t want to repeat myself, and I also have to tell a story that is important to me. It’s not going to resonate as true unless it’s in me right now. I’m in another part of my life where I’m realizing that mortality is real and that my next breath is not promised. So that area of storytelling is important to me because that’s how I’m feeling right now. Mortality, and telling stories about what have I contributed, what is my contribution, what have I laid out, what have I given back to the world in some way? That’s where I’m at right now.

Trench Coat by Saint Laurent, Shirt and Jeans by Gucci, Sunglasses by Tom Ford

Speaking of mortality, you’re directing a new version of Terms of Endearment; you recently revealed that your remake of Terms of Endearment would deal with the intersectional issues of race and sexuality, specifically that Flap would contract HIV through homosexual sex and infect his wife. In response, critics and fans alike are saying things like “Wait, don’t mess with this classic” and “Far more people died of cancer than HIV!” Why do you think people have reacted this way?

People can say whatever they’d like to say. I say, BYE, haters! I have a story to tell. See y’all in the theaters! I don’t have time for people’s opinions. If I go with people’s opinions, then I’m not making Monster’s Ball, and I’m not making Precious, and I’m not making The Butler, and I’m not making Empire, and I’m not making Star, I’m doing what people want me to do. So, BYE people! I’ll see you in the theaters. And then they go see the movie and are like, (mockingly) “Oh, ok I get it.” …NEXT!

So basically you’re saying “Wait for it to come out, then come at me…”

Then come at me with all of your armor and spears… and you will anyway, so whatever.

In an interview with Elvis Duran, your protegé and an amazing actor, Gabourey Sidibe said what I think is going to be one of the most iconic quotes of her career. Speaking on the topic of self-confidence, she said that self-confidence is something that she has to remember to reapply to herself during the day, like lipstick. Could you speak to that a little bit? You’re a very confident guy…

I am not confident. It’s all a facade. It’s masked. As hard as I try to go for the truth in everything that I do, the only thing that’s untruthful about me, which is fascinating, is my confidence. My confidence is forced. And it’s exactly what Gabourey Sidibe says. That I have to constantly remind myself that I am worthy of being on this phone with you talking about ME. Because I don’t think that I… deep down somewhere there is an insecure boy that feels very much that he isn’t qualified to be on the phone. And I have no problems sharing that with the world, that the exterior masks a very scarred and insecure man, who has learned to love himself.

I want to follow up with you on a question that was raised during your SXSW keynote – I believe the question was something along the lines of how you feel the visual elements of storytelling are changing in this era of binge watching and mobile viewing platforms… at the time you didn’t have an answer. Have you thought about it since?

Well, let me tell you. I can talk about that now because I am now binge watching, and I’m always a little bit behind the eight ball because I’m always working. When I took a little break I started binge watching and now I’m obsessed!

(laughs) So tell me what you’re binge watching!

Well I haven’t finished it yet, but I’m obsessed with The Crown, like borderline crazy level. And right before that I binge watched The Handmaid’s Tale – obsessed with it! I can’t get enough of it! And right before that I binge watched The Night Of – oh my god! Just like obsessed with it, can’t get enough of it, and right after that I binge watched Feud. So I’m ready to talk about binge watching. I’ve never binge watched before until then.

Even your own work – Empire, Star…

I don’t see my work… I don’t binge watch my work, I cringe watch my work! how’s that? (Laughs)

But a lot of people are binge watching your work as it’s available on platforms like Hulu, so now that you are binge watching, could you speak on how that’s inspiring you to tell stories or how that may affect how you tell stories?

What I have learned now through binge watching is that these stories have to be ON. I can’t just drop the ball on a subject matter or topic that I’ve sort of grazed upon in one episode. So I’ve got to make sure that they land. Because I see the mistakes even with my favorite television shows that I binge watch and I would like to make sure that I don’t make the same ones. And I understand now the importance of binge watching, and I have a new appreciation of it.

Are there stories or products that you were holding on to and didn’t know quite what to do with and now that you are a part of this binge watching culture, you maybe see better opportunity to tell those stories?

Yeah, it’s hard though. Because you’re dealing with celebrities’ schedules that are on the show, along with production schedules, and then the notes from the studio. It’s a puzzle, it’s a jigsaw puzzle. It’s a miracle really, that any great television is made. I really don’t know how it’s done. Through a wing and a prayer! Because that’s how we did Star last year, and it will be just as difficult this year in making sure that we tell this story. Because we’re dealing with schedules. People’s schedules really screw it up! (laughs)

Other than your life stories and experiences, you’ve mentioned before that your influences vary widely. The first book you read, which had a huge influence on your entrée into the entertainment world, was Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?. You’ve also said you and Mariah Carey call each other Cotton and Kitten based on an old John Waters movie [Pink Flamingos]…

(Laughs) Do you know John Waters’ films? I mean, how great is he? Astounding. I would love to see John Waters do something for Netflix or another streaming site, I mean what would that look like? He better figure it out! As a matter of fact I’m gonna call him when I get back from Cannes to make sure that his ass is behind the camera again because so many are influenced by his work. He is such an underrated trailblazer, at least in my eyes. He is everything! So yeah, Kitten and Cotton come to the rescue.

Do you think that we would ever get a Lee Daniels / John Waters collaboration?

I would kill for that! But here’s the thing. As we get older, we become more politically correct. I know I do, and I think John did and I think it’s just that a part of age is being old. I don’t know that I would have the courage to do Precious now, if that makes any sense at all. I know how it is out there. And youth… you know the naiveté that you have when you’re young and not afraid to be criticized, and then that level of fame that comes with that. I may hang up the phone with you now and say “Wow, this is almost like a therapy session, where I might say well maybe I will do something like Precious just to shock people. Because one expects you to go on and on, to bigger and better things. My first movie we made for two cents and it garnered Halle Berry the first Black woman to have an Academy Award, and that came from a place of utter fearlessness and not caring and not giving two F’s what anyone had to say about a subject matter that everyone in Hollywood passed on.

In 2015 you were on a drama showrunner roundtable panel where you said “I hate white people writing for Black people; it’s so offensive. So we go out and look specifically for African-American voices. Yes, it’s all about reverse racism!” and asked the other show creators if they had African-American people in their writer’s rooms. Another notable creator, Ava Duvernay, is known for selecting female directors for her show Queen Sugar. For this and the upcoming film A Wrinkle In Time, she even sent notice to the heads of each department not to submit a homogenous list of hires unless they could prove they had considered others. How do you feel about this approach to hiring crew and building a team? Could you speak more on this, especially with direct relation to the stories that you’re telling?

I can’t speak for Ms. Duvernay, I don’t know her. But I can speak for myself in that… I have to be frank with you. Again, it’s a grey area. Not to retract the comment, but if I could think about it again… there are people that aren’t of color that can write for people of color. But to a bigger picture so many people of color weren’t being hired to write for themselves. So, I can’t isolate to say that there aren’t those exceptions. That’s like saying that I can’t write for a white man, when I have; you know what I mean? A hundred percent. I think what a lot of people would say to that is that there’s enough white men writing for white men, so that’s why this is important; that we make sure we have enough people of color in the writing room… Yeah but I think that I make it a point to make sure that my world around me reflects the environment that I have grown up in and that I’m trying to articulate on the screen. So yeah, I believe strongly in hiring who’s right for the job. It’s tricky. I think I’m gonna be politically correct on that subject and shut up. Let me shut up on that comment. (laughing) How about that!

Going from one politically sensitive subject to another, last year was a huge year for entertainment depicting stories about people of color and featuring POC with Moonlight, Hamilton, etc. It was also the year our administration completely changed. Do you think these are related and how does one inform the other?

Yes. I think Trump is a reflection of who we are today and who we have become. Just as Obama was a reflection of where we were when he was in office. I think Trump is our karma, just as Obama was our karma.

Would you almost consider that as a backlash of sorts? You know, all of a sudden people of color have these voices… and now this happens. Do you think these stories that are being told and released on such a mass scale are causing this kind of backlash and uproar?

I think that we had our first Black president; and Empire was created, that changed the landscape of television. I think my mother needed a reality check. And I needed a reality check. America made sure that we got that reality check by putting Mr. Trump in office. So how does that now affect the narratives that you’re exposing or the stories that you’re telling? I have to respond accordingly now, don’t I? Suit and Shirt by Ron Tomson, Watch by Rolex

Grooming by Jhizet @ Forward Artists, Art Direction by Louis Liu, Editor Marc Sifuentes, Photographer’s 1st Assistant Jordan Jennings, 2nd Assistant: Luc Richard Elle, Production by XTheStudio, Special Thanks to Chantal Artur and Brooke Blumberg from Sunshine Sachs.

MAURICIO AND ROGER PADILHA

Growing up in Long Island with dreams of Manhattan, the brothers behind MAO Public Relations now look back on their journey of how they became one of the top boutique PR agencies in New York City.

Portrait by Johnny Vicari

The lyrics of “New York, New York” still rings true for many in fashion: “If I can make it there, I’ll make it anywhere. It’s up to you, New York, New York.” The pair who have made it are brothers Mauricio and Roger Padilha, who for the past 20 years have successfully launched the careers of some of today’s most influential designers such as Jason Wu, Peter Som, The Blonds, Sally Lapointe and Fausto Puglisi through their company. The secret to their ability for finding diamonds in the rough and transforming them into fashion industry sensations could be attributed to the unconventional path the duo has taken (and continues to) throughout their lives and careers.

After years of working in the fashion industry, separately and together, the two launched MAO PR in 1997. Mauricio worked as a Public Relations Director for various young designers, while Roger had his own fashion label which was sold in major department stores and boutiques, appeared in most major fashion publications, and was supported by countless celebrities.

Now approaching its twentieth year, MAO Public Relations enjoys a reputation of being one of the hardest-working agencies in the fashion PR industry. Always seeking to further the professional careers of their clients through promotion, publicity, and image management, the two approach each collection as if it were their own. The Padilha brothers wrote and curated The Stephen Sprouse Book, Antonio: Fashion, Art, Sex, and Disco, and GLOSS: The Work of Chris Von Wangenheim.

Their friend, fashion designer Anna Sui, talked to the PR/Event production gurus and authors about fashion, nightclubs, old New York, and the importance of scrapbooking.

From top left to right: MAO MAG 9 party M+R with Mermaids, R+M with Liza during NYFW, M+R with Debbie Harry and Teri Toye, Courtesy of MAOPR. M+R with Marc Jacobs Photo by Sam Deitch for BFA. From middle left to right: Anna Nicole Smith, M calling models at the Barbie 50th anniversary show, Courtsey of MAOPR, Barbie 50th anniversary show Photo by Dan Lecca. From bottom left to right: model at Antonio Lopez book party, Photo by Shaun Mader for PMC, Amanda Lepore at Antonio Lopez book party, Photo by Harel Rintzler for PMC. Models at the GLOSS book party, Photo by Kevin Tachman. Pat Cleveland photo by Andreas Hofweber

Interview by Anna Sui | Intro by Roger Padilha

MAURICIO: This is so weird. Normally I would like be more comfortable interviewing you…

ANNA: (Laughter) Let’s start from the very beginning. Tell me where you were born and what your influences were as kids. What were you dreaming of?

MP: Roger and I were born in New York, but our parents are Brazilian so we moved back to Brazil for a few years after we were born. During that time we became obsessed with comic books that we would cut apart and rearrange.

ROGER: It’s funny because it was like a form of scrapbooking, and when we got older we would scrapbook images of our favorite pop stars like Boy George or Grace Jones. We would cut out things from magazines and rearrange the photos in a way that we thought was more inspiring. I guess that a lot of that training really got put to use thirty years later when we started doing books.

AS: You were born art directors! Do you still have any of these “scrapbooks”?

MP: Yeah, I do! They’re in my kitchen cabinets!

AS: That should be your next book!

RP: But the biggest part of our childhood that shaped our lives was living in Long Island. It was so boring. There is something to be said about growing up in a small suburb; it really gives one a lot of drive to get out and do something.

MP: We lived through magazines and images. And one of the magazines that we absolutely worshipped was Annie Flander’s Details Magazine that covered the New York nightlife scene. We would see people like Debbie Harry or Dianne Brill in Stephen Saben’s column and just decided that we wanted to meet these people and go to the places they were being photographed at.

RP: It just seemed like these people were LIVING. They were not the typical celebrities we would see on TV. They were dressing up and making up their own lives and rules and we just really wanted to be part of that world. Believe it or not, our parents let us come into the city when I was just 13 and Mauricio was 16 to go to these nightclubs! The rule was that we had to stay together and do well in school, but otherwise we had total freedom to go to the city. The first club we went to was Palladium and that first night we met Dianne Brill and became friends with her. We were really ballsy I guess.

AS: That’s amazing! And the social life at the time was that you could go out and meet those people. It wasn’t such a big scene and everyone was going to the same places, that was the specialness of NY at that time.

RP: And it wasn’t as elitist as it is now. There was no bottle service. People didn’t have entourages or handlers. As long as you were interesting and had some sort of look, these people were readily available to you.

AS: Tell me your routine, like where would you go every night and what would you wear? What was that period like?

MP: There were different parties every night of the week and you would sort of dress differently for each one. On Tuesdays there was Larry Tee’s parties at The Underground, on Wednesdays there was “Celebrity Night” at The Tunnel, or last Thursday of every month was Susanne Bartsch’s parties at the Copacabana for those you’d dress a bit more outlandishly. Then on the weekends there was M.K. and Nell’s, and for those nights we’d go for a more conservative look.

RP: And a conservative look for us back then would be sequined jeans and a blazer! For the other nights we’d wear the craziest things—Mauricio had a canary yellow fur vest trimmed in fringe with pleather bell bottoms, and I’d wear a motorcycle jacket with hundreds of fake jewels glued onto them…it was just about being creative and not being scared of being individual.

MP: And of course we wore a lot of Stephen Sprouse because we started collecting it back then.

AS: Everyone must have stopped dead in their tracks when you guys would show up wearing head to toe Stephen Sprouse…

RP: Well, it wasn’t just us. EVERYONE dressed up back then. Nowadays there’s always a few people in a club that really dress up and they are usually on a stage, but back then it was literally everyone in the room. And that was how you’d meet people. You didn’t put on a big red fur coat to be photographed or instagrammed, but because it was a good icebreaker for people to talk to you and start a conversation.

AS: Right, it was like a secret vocabulary. You knew if someone would “get it” by how they dressed. It was really such a fun, unique time and I think things are so different in the city now that there isn’t that kind of subculture anymore.

RP: Yeah. I always say: ”I’m not happy that I’m old now, but I AM happy I was young back then.”

AS: How did you decide that you wanted to go into fashion?

RP: In the mid to late 80’s, the club scene that we were a part of started really getting into fashion. Dianne Brill started modeling for Jean Paul Gaultier and Susanne Bartsch was bringing international designers such as Thierry Mugler and Geoffrey Beene to the voguing scene. So there was a convergence of the club scene with the fashion industry, and by being there we got to meet all these designers, stylists, editors, and models.

MP: We certainly dressed wild, but we weren’t born performers or drag queens. We didn’t want to work in nightclubs or do whatever anyone else was doing, but the exposure to all these designers in the club scene helped push us into fashion. Roger decided to leave high school two years early because he hated it and knew he wanted to be in fashion. So, he automatically applied to Parsons and got in. I had another year left in high school and also ended up graduating at the same time from Parsons.

RP: We both majored in Fashion Design. I even opened up a design company after graduating, but we learned very quickly that both of us preferred the behind the scenes aspect of creating which led us to open MAO. There was a real need for PR for young designers, and having been part of trying to start a design company, we knew firsthand the challenges that designers go through.

From top left to right: M with Susanne Bartsch in Paris Courtesy of MAOPR, M+R with Anna Sui Courtesy of BOOKMARC, M with Naomi Campbell at her book launch, Bill Cunningham at MAO MAG 3 party, Joan Rivers and R, M+R with Dianne Brill photos Courtesy of MAOPR

AS: How has the fashion industry changed during your career?

MP: So much! As we said, when we started MAO there wasn’t much support for young designers apart from us. It was very much the era of labels and logos. It was really not until after September 11th that young designers started getting attention paid to them. A lot of people were seeking newness and a lot of our designers such as Jason Wu started breaking through. Now I feel like we swung back and it’s almost impossible for a young designer to get attention or make any noise nowadays.

RP: Fashion is super cyclical in that way, and I feel like we are back where we started 20 years ago. It seems impossible to compete against the big companies who are willing to shell out big bucks to dress celebrities and pay “influencers” to wear the clothing. And beyond that, designers have to design more collections a year than ever before…

MP:…and designers are expected to dress everyone. It used to be that designers would have a focused customer base and really tailor their collections to them, but now it seems that designers are pressured to have something for everyone. Everyone has started to look the same. The individual style that showed through in your collections, or Marc’s, or Isaac ‘s when you first started got lost in the race to please everyone.

AS: Right. I think a lot of that has to do with it being impossible to be independent these days and designers having investors that they have to answer to. But since fashion is such a pendulum, do you think that it will swing back to be more creative and individual?

MP: I hope so. There’s some new designers who are super individual AND successful and maybe that’s going to help other designers exert a more distinct voice in the market place.

RP: I think Alessandro Michele at Gucci is setting the new standard by showing that you can take chances and be individual while still being financially successful. Hopefully other companies will follow suit.

AS: What was the best advice you ever got?

MP: We produced an event that was honoring Polly Mellen, and before she took the stage we were chatting and she told me, “Just keep moving forward. Never look back no matter what happens.” As simple as that sounds, it’s very true. Clients come and go, Fashion Week starts and ends, and it’s really important to focus on what you are going to do next.

AS: You’ve started the careers of so many designers who have become major in the industry. How can you tell when you meet someone that they have the potential to become successful?

RP: Well, one of the most interesting moments we had was meeting Jason Wu. He had called us looking for representation and at the meeting instead of showing us samples, he pulled out these dolls and told us that he designed the clothing they were wearing and a lot of the doll collectors wanted life size versions of the clothing. That was around the point I walked out on the meeting! (laughter) Thankfully, Mauricio stuck through with it and asked Jason to come back with life sized samples of the clothing, and that’s when we started working together.

MP: That’s the most fun part for us, to nurture someone and direct their brands. We’re different than a lot of other PR companies because we actually help designers develop products and their image to help them find their niche in the market place.

AS: I think that that’s your genius because you love fashion so much. You have such great instinct for it and where it’s going that you can help guide a lot of these people who have talent but don’t know how to channel it. What’s been your greatest challenge in your career?

RP: Like everyone in New York, the major challenge is always financial. Everyone is on a tight budget and year after year the budgets get smaller and smaller

MP: While our rents go up and up and up….

AS: Isn’t that crazy? How are people even supposed to work?

RP: We’ve seen such talented people go out of business because they can’t afford to run a small business in this city. It’s a shame. We’ve been lucky in that we have been able pick and choose our clients and work with people we want to work with. We don’t really do things that we don’t want to do. But my biggest fear is that we’re going to have to take on a big corporate company just to survive. That doesn’t align with what we believe in, and that’s always kind of scary to think about.

AS: Yes. It’s the economics of the times. I think we all have to face that because of the way things are. But beyond that, what do you consider your greatest success and what does that mean to you?

MP: Every morning I wake up and I love going to work. We’re not making millions but we’re keeping things going and creatively we’re doing what we love to do, and we’re doing it together; that to me is success.

RP: I don’t think either of us think that making a lot of money is a definition of success. I would love to have more money, of course, but when we get recognition from people like you that we respect for example, that’s the biggest thrill. To be able to work with the kind of people we work with, and to be in this special circle of creative people…that is the life that I really wanted when I was thirteen.

AS: And beyond the PR company, you guys have done three books together. How do you pick your subject matter?

MP: All of our books have sort of began with people we thought weren’t getting the attention they deserved. When Stephen Sprouse died, the obituaries were focused on his collaboration with Louis Vuitton and Target but no one wrote about the brilliant 25-year career he had before that. Same with Antonio Lopez and Chris Von Wangenheim… For us it’s really important to get artists recognized when they do something first. And maybe because we know that in the future someone’s going to have to do that for our legacy! (laughter)

AS: So you mentioned leaving a legacy…where do you see yourself in 20 years?

MP: I have a feeling we’re still going to be doing this. I don’t intend on letting go until it’s over. Only death will get us off the merry-go-round.

AS: Well, I think your passion is forever and drives everything you guys do. It’s wonderful and a quality more people should have.

For more information, visit: http://www.maopr.com/news.html

GARREN

Garren Portrait by Michael Del Buono

He took Madonna to platinum for her cult photo book expose SEX; transformed Victoria Beckham’s infamous angled-bob of the Aughts into a pixie cut; and turned a pair of sun- kissed girls, Taylor Swift and Karlie Kloss, into pristine young women for the cover of Vogue. Fashion’s go-to hair guru has had a decades- spanning career, a lifetime achievement in an industry known for its volatile, fickle, and often cutthroat nature. In the process, he’s amassed an editorial and advertising portfolio that includes work created with every major photographer, stylist, supermodel, and celebrity that has worked within the last four decades to be exact. There is no denying that the visionary hairstylist known simply as Garren, is a creative force to be reckoned with. Still, for as much pageantry as his resume demands, especially in a world as excessive as fashion, it isn’t necessary. As we discovered, Garren’s humility, authenticity and talent are a rare blend for people of his caliber. With
a salt-of-the-earth story telling ability and a natural gift to connect with others, it’s easy to understand why the living legend is still one of the industry’s leading mane magnates.

I first want to talk a little about your background, when did you know that you wanted to work in fashion?

When I was 13 I was obsessed with Vogue and Harper’s Bazaar. They were like my bible, my mother would buy them and I would go through each page. My mother was prematurely grey; every time she would go to the hair dresser they would do a skip wave like an old lady’s hair, I would tease her out and make her into a bouffant. Her friends started asking who did her hair and she would reply, “You wouldn’t believe if I tell you, it’s my son.” They thought it was my older brother, but before you know it, they all wanted to get their hair done. So I started going from house to house after school on Friday and Saturday. I would do three ladies on Friday and six ladies on Saturday.

This was at 13?

Yes, in the 60’s. I was obsessed with Jackie O, Marilyn Monroe, and Elizabeth Taylor – all the glamorous women. My father built a little salon for me in the basement where I did hair after school on Thursday and Friday, and all day Saturday too. My father and mother would make all the appointments so that every twenty minutes there was another lady coming to get washed, set, and cut. I used to look at magazines which used to have little booklets to show how Kenneth [Battelle] did the hair. It would have a picture and instructions of how you set or cut it. I kind of taught myself!

That’s amazing and sounds like your parents were very supportive.

Yes, there was no issue…until it was a big issue when I was in 10th grade. The student counselor at my high school called me for a meeting to talk about my goals and which college I wanted to attend. I told him that I wanted to go to the beauty school and he objected, “Men don’t go to beauty school.” Later, he called my father and I in for a meeting together. He told my father that he thought it was the wrong career path for me because he thought I couldn’t make money out of that or have a future. My dad was quiet for a moment… He stood up and said, “Mr. McDonald I understand your concern but my son has been doing hair since he was 13. He’s very good at it, and already making a good living at it; he will do this in the future, it’s going to give him a big future. This conversation is over and my son will go to beauty school. My son will be really successful so you better watch out for his name.” Then he walked out of the room!

I went to beauty school and started doing hair right away in Buffalo in a big department store. It was there that I competed in my first hair show. Christiaan Houtenbos – he’s been in New York forever now – was one of the judges. At dinner, after the show, I asked him what IneededtodotogettoNewYorkandhe gave me his information to contact him if I ever visited. When I went to visit, he introduced me to some people at Glenby, which owned 1600 to 1800 salons around the world in major department stores like Bergdorf Goodman and Bloomingdales in New York. I met the people who owned the company, and they decided to appoint me as style director at a salon in the Boulevard Mall in Buffalo. They wouldn’t bring me to New York City right away – I had to prove myself first.

After three years, I was ready for change, so I gave them an ultimatum and I ended up at a salon in Bergdorf Goodman. My husband ended up at Henri Bendel. We came together in the city in the end of ‘73. I guess we were at the right place at the right time. Within a year I was asked to go meet Polly Mellon and Irving Penn for Vogue, so I started doing Vogue. I was on a rollercoaster, I didn’t know how I had got there, but I knew it was a big deal! Polly took me to Paris. She asked me, “Do you realize what’s happening to you?” The truth was, I didn’t know at that time because I was having fun working and creating. Everyone was so nice then… but now I know that they are not nice and dramatic! (laughter) I absorbed every bit of knowledge I could. In New York, I was working with Irving Penn and Patrick [Demarchelier]. I was doing all the big sittings and getting all the right covers and editorials. That was all the way through the 80’s.

Three years later in ‘76, Glenby decided to open a salon for me at the Plaza Hotel, since I had become the style director of the company. Then I left in ‘82, as the company was slowing down and just in time before they closed everything. So I continued freelancing doing advertising and editorials. At that time I was working with Bill King, Arthur Elgort, Patrick [Demarchelier] and then I met Steven Meisel. I worked for him exclusively for about 20 years. During that time, Paul Cavaco had become involved with Henri Bendel, and he invited me to meet the President of Bendel’s so that they could build a salon for me. After my contract was up with Henri Bendel, I decided to open my own salon at the Sherry Netherland, where we were for 9 years.

I was lucky to be in the game with the supermodels of the 80’s and 90’s. Back then, I could fantasize and take it to a place where we created amazing images together. Now it’s only celebrities. Working with celebrities now you need to be politically correct. You have to do what they want you to do. Fortunately, with me they let go and aren’t as demanding. I’m very lucky that I’ve been able to cut and create looks for celebrities and all the supermodels. It’s allowed me to go against the grain of what’s really in the fashion…to make a statement of what is going to be in fashion.

Now, I still freelance and I’m also working on my product line, R+Co. I’m very grateful because I know I have an amazing career. And sometimes, people don’t get it! You had to have a mastery over your skill and craft because at that time there was nothing digital. Whatever you created was what you saw in the final printed photographs. Now everything is so digital, if you’re a wiz on the computer, you can make anything look good. But the quality of the work isn’t as good.

Onset with Audrey Hepburn, Steven Meisel, Kevyn Aucoin, and Garren for Vanity Fair Magazine, 1991 | Photography by Steven Meisel | Hair by Garren. Makeup by Kevyn Aucoin | Styled by Marina Schiano

Did you ever imagine that your father’s words to your high school guidance counselor would become a self-fulfilling prophecy of your life?

Not until I started doing these educational hair seminars for R+Co. For a portion, we do a question and answer and we also share our stories. We talk about our journey and it starts connect with lot of stylists. The hair stylists that are in the audience are overwhelmed and appreciative. You see parts of yourself in them and… it kind of takes all that celebrity out of us and makes us human. So I think that whole story about of my father, is always something that people gravitate towards and they really… they can connect with it because that is something they have gone through or relate with.

It sounds like you have a natural ability and gift to connect with all kinds of people.

And it has done me well! But it’s like when I look back at it now, my god, I mean… When you have a salon and start raising your family of hairdressers that work for you, you realize all the baggage that comes with them. You try to pick them up and make them know that it is okay to be who they are. It was a learning experience for me, because it was so easy for me to come out as a gay person. My family was very supportive of it. You know they just wanted me to be happy. So during my whole career, my life, I have constantly made an effort to keep people’s morale up and to help them understand that it is okay to be who they are. You know, there are a lot of kids that forget how they started. Then they become so super that they get out of touch with who… you know like manners and politeness, and all that goes away and I look at them and watch them…

They become their own celebrity.

…and it is kind of like they only get “it” after they have one misstep. They remember there are rules, that there are things you have to follow and ways of being while on the job. Kenneth’s [Battelle] advice has always stuck with me when he told me, “We are in the service business. You are not on that same level as that celebrity or supermodel whose hair you are doing. Remember they are hiring you.”

I know it sounds crazy to some, but as fabulous as you think you are, you really have to be careful that you don’t overstep boundaries or start bragging about yourself. Your client or model or actor just wants you to know them. You know what I mean? They might be interested to hear about you sometimes, but it could be really devastating for a hair stylists’ career if they cross that line.

Advice that stuck with you and you’ve passed on?

Yes! That always kind of stuck with me. That humble part of me is there. I try to instill that into my assistants as well. Some kids get overly-fabulous right away just before they get stomped out. But, if they realize what’s happening to them at the moment that it’s happening, then they’ll be able to climb that ladder of success easily. They’ll be able to take their time instead of raging to the top and then falling off.

Has it been an enjoyable experience for you to create your product line with R+Co?

R+Co, is completely the opposite of the way I did my first line [Garren NY]. It has everything for something. If you want a curly look, a straight look, a wet look, then we have a product for it. The genius part of it is that it’s fun and eclectic because
it is three of us, Howard Mclaren, Thom Priano [my husband] and myself. We keep growing our wish list of what we want to create and what the kids are asking for. Our attitude is like, “What else can we do?” It’s been a great two years that we’ve been traveling for regional hair seminars with an audience of 300 – 400 hair stylist. We get to engage and educate them and
in turn the product is getting it out there, reaching the middle of America, the UK, Europe, and Australia. We’re currently putting a team together that will travel to provide training with our techniques, products and brand DNA for other hairstylists at our partnering salons.

Vogue Italia December 2004 | Photography by Steven Meisel | Model Karen Elson | Hair by Garren Makeup by Pat McGrath | Fashion Editor Edward Enninful

You’ve experienced a sustaining level of longevity and notoriety within your career, essentially you’ve been in business since you were 13. Would you say that spirit of entrepreneurship has always been intrinsic and come very natural?

It is natural, but on the other hand I have always promoted other people to take care and handle it. I learned in last 10 years that you really have to be on top of everything to keep it going to the place where you want it to go. I started letting go and trusting others to do the jobs I’d hired them to do. But then, it sort of humbled me to realize that they can fuck up too. You really have to be on top of everything. So that in itself was a learning experience, and I think in terms of success and career, that it was another growing pain. Growing pains are good because I have learned from it. I might not have liked or wanted the outcome of certain circumstances or situations, but it is what it is and I am always trying to figure out what I am doing next.

I’m sure a great assistant has been imperative?

YES! I always bring the assistants on and they stay with me for two years and then the agreement is they go on to create their own career. I continue doing it this way because I get off on that. I enjoy helping someone create their future. For example, when I work with, let’s say, a makeup artist, I sometimes hear the makeup artist going, ‘Well my assistant went in and did the job. How dare they.’ And I’m like… don’t you feel like compassion for this kid? I mean he or she’s been with you for a while and they’re not stealing your ideas. It’s like you have to cut the apron strings!

And it is beautiful! The work he or she did is beautiful! Yet the makeup artist doesn’t even compliment them and stops using them as an assistant. It surprises me that there are loads of people out there that still like that. It’s no difference with big editors who work for a magazine—a big magazine– and they have these assistants that become almost the backbones of what they do. They are so capable and they understand what’s going on. But when it’s time for them to leave they never take them into the fold. They throw them back into the world and dismiss them. They are really great people, but I just never understood why they don’t generate their own talent and drink from that pool.

And it also looks good on you too. By training them, you get to foster that creativity and give them the foundation.

I have always been proud of them moving up. The only time that it would upset me when they undercut me for a job or do something deceitful. But when they are going out and they are starting to do their own thing and they are not overlapping with my world, I think that is very cool and I am very happy for them because they found their way. They find their little piece of magic and they are allowed to do it. They have their own world to create.

You’ve worked with some of the most talented people in the industry: photographers, models, makeup artists, editors; what do you do to keep yourself inspired so that you can continue creating with fresh eyes?

I think it’s about having an open mind and knowing that it is a team effort. It’s not going in and doing your own thing. You are having a collaboration of hair, makeup, the stylist, and possibly the designer. You are all working together to make
that image the most amazing image. But remember, you are only creating part of it. I’ve been lucky to work with people that have a specific point of view. With those people, we can discuss it openly and come up with an idea with which we go forward. If it isn’t working or it is not looking great, we know how to tweak it. You cannot go in with the solid idea, and think that you are going to be able to execute it because it might be on the wrong person and the wrong situation.

During the whole 90’s, I was so lucky to be able to have Amber (Valletta) and Linda (Evangelista) and all of them as my muses. I would get on set, and those girls would inspire me to cut their hair a certain way and create certain styles. So this is how I have always nurtured the looks that I do. It’s how I have always pushed myself by being open
in the collaboration process.

And you feed off the energy of the photographer when collaborating?

Yes! For example working with Steven Klein, I know his aesthetic is very strong and aggressive. Whatever I create with him is going to be a real woman that has something cold and sexual about her. Or, Steven Meisel is like a master of making anyone look cool, modern, and gorgeous. Even when it is a subtle thing it becomes a major inspiration. So I already know the DNA of the photographer and I have always absorbed what the photographers are going for.

Sometimes I get hired by the client and there is a new photographer working that is way younger than I am, but I walk in and they don’t even know how to have a conversation because they might feel afraid of me. So I sort of say, “Okay let’s do this or that. I want to know what you want. I want to know what you want to get out of the model. Where you are going with this?” We have to talk about the hair, makeup, wardrobe, and lighting so that I know what I am going to give them.

What do you think is stifling creativity in fashion right now?

When I started the business, we would do two pictures a day; then it became four pictures a day. Then it got to be 6 pictures a day. Then 10. Then 10 pictures plus behind the scenes stills and video! On set, everybody is working in a circle and there is never a break so I think it’s kind of lost the art part of it. The thing that’s unbelievable is that now all the actresses are wearing clothes that just fall off the runway and it gets online or on social media first. By the time it gets to the consumer it already feels old. No one wants to spend five, ten, or fifteen thousand dollars on a garment that’s already been worn by 4-5 other women already. I don’t know how they are going to figure that one out.

I do feel there is a disconnect, it’s just a different world. I’m just glad that I had been in the old world, it’s hard for me to adjust sometimes because I get really upset because people are not doing the quality work that they should be doing. I have to stay relevant, and to be relevant you have to be ahead of the game and force through it. Fashion, for me, has been through four cycles already. Every time it comes back of course it is a different point of view, different model, different photographer. It’s a different approach.

I laugh when people are putting tear sheets up, and I see my work in the references. A lot are still so consumed by Madonna’s fashion. They are like, “Do you remember when Madonna did this or that with her hair?” The kids are so young these days they don’t even know that I was who did most of those looks for Madonna, so I just chuckle.

What was it like working on the Sex book with Madonna and Steven Meisel?

We had so much fun! We were hysterical most of the time and it was because our team was so solid. It was Francois Nars, Paul Cavaco, Fabien Baron and Steven Meisel. We really just had fun doing it. When I look back at the scenarios in the book, I know exactly what we were laughing at while it was happening because it was us directing, “Put your hand a little more there…a little more there! Now do this! No! – stand in that position just like that…” and laughing because it looked so funny. But what the photographs captured…it’s like, “Oh My God that’s so sick!” A lot of things were done spur of the moment. That’s what made those photos so major because she really did have that reaction of what was going on with the piercing and wax or whatever and it wasn’t so calculated.

So there was a sense of honesty that translated throughout the Sex book?

Yes, when I look back at it, it’s really pure, and I remember when we started talking about the book, she was a brunette. I just said, “If you’re doing a coffee table book, you’ve got to be blonde.” And everyone agreed with me. I hadn’t worked with her for a while before we started the book, but her body was in the best shape. She was 30 years old at the time and she was ready to expose everything. We knew that whatever we did it had to be top notch, cool, beautiful. It had to be sensual and at the same time push boundaries so that people would stop and look at it. Now when you look at it there’s like nothing shocking about it.

But for the time it definitely pushed boundaries. I think it’s interesting that you’ve talked about her being 30 in relation to her self-confidence of being ready to expose herself creatively in that way. Models start very young, how is it different working with a model who is just getting started as opposed to an established celebrity.

They are teenagers, though they’ve always been kind of young. Now a lot are being discovered because they are Instagram girls. When I was asked to work with Kendall [Jenner] at the very beginning when she just started working with Vogue, I was placed in a position where I’m always placed when someone is new. Everyone really wants to create who they are and give them confidence and teach them how to model. I worked with Kendall when David Sims and Camilla [Nickerson] shot her for American Vogue and then I worked with her when she first started doing [Estee] Lauder. Kendall is a pleasure to work with because she really wants to learn and is very professional and on point. Her self-awareness is like a breath of fresh air. She really wants modeling to be her career and I respect her for that. It’s totally different when you have a celebrity or actress because they already have been in the game and they have that understanding.

Celebrity or model, they all want Estee Lauder and Maybelline behind them, but now it’s a different route. A lot of these girls’ names were celebrated before they actually became the celebrity models. So they really want to prove that they can do it and that is natural confidence that pushes them to succeed. I just want to close with two personal questions. The first one is: what is the best advice that you have ever received? The best advice I received was from Polly Mellon, when she said “Garren remember where you are at every present moment. Right now, we’re in Paris, we’re doing the collection and you’re at your first show. You’re with me, you’re with Mr. Penn and this moment you need to seize it and this will help build your career by the attention that you’re giving it. Absorb it.”

I remember how Polly would hold her collar up and how Mr. Penn wanted a cuff to look. I would watch how they created the detail of a still life. As well, I loved observing how Avedon taught the girls how to jump and move, or how Meisel taught them how to pose and carry themselves. Those experiences honed me. I knew exactly how I could make it more if they wanted more. I watched every movement, every gesture, and learned from that so that I was able to give them the type of girl that they wanted.

What is the advice that you would give to your younger self?

I wouldn’t change anything because if I would have changed something back then, I probably wouldn’t have been where I am today. Like if I would have smoothed out some of the rough edges, or the transition periods, I wouldn’t have been able to learn from those highs and lows in life. But advice I would probably give: pinch yourself when you’re in the moment. Absorb that this is really happening and this is a big deal, but don’t go out and brag about it. Let other people tell you how good you are so that you don’t become disconnected from the whole process.

I admire how you draw such appreciation for the growth and learning provided by transition periods in life.

You definitely have to, if you don’t learn then you haven’t really gone through a transition. There are lots of times when we get scared, I still do! I have a big project coming up and I’m just double- thinking myself. If I didn’t have that little bit of anxiousness before the project, I probably wouldn’t perform as well. I think that is missing in a lot of people today, that nervousness before a job. The thing that has always stuck with me is that you can never be overly prepared but on the other hand, if an idea of your own is shot down you can’t take it at heart.

That’s the other thing: to be really successful in this business, if everyone else is saying that it doesn’t look right or cool, or maybe it needs more, you have to take a step back. Ask how you can make it more or how you can make it work. Listen to the feedback of those around you and consider it. Don’t be defensive. Be open to collaborating.

Interview by Dustin Mansyur

FRANÇOIS NARS

François Nars, Founder and Creative Director of NARS Cosmetics | Image credit: Patrick Demarchelie

Francois Nars is one of the biggest names in makeup and beauty, and has created a business with international acclaim and reverence which leaves us with one question: how? The makeup mogul who has helped push beauty boundaries and set new standards within the fashion industry is a true revolutionary. The French perfectionist has helped his fans the world over truly embrace their inner beauty by fluidly weaving his creative roles as a makeup artist, photographer, and creative director of Nars Cosmetics. Catapulting into success after moving to New York in 1984 at the encouragement of then Editor-in-Chief of American Vogue, Polly Mellon, Francois’ work has infiltrated fashion and beauty media, gracing the pages of famed publications such as Harper’s Bazaar, Elle, and Vogue with his advertising campaigns and editorial work. No stranger to the runway, Nars has also been the industry’s go-to artist for designers such as Karl Lagerfeld, Marc Jacobs, & Anna Sui. Ten years after his relocation to New York, Nars launched his eponymous line (then a modest collection of 12 lipsticks) at Barney’s New York and was met with such demanding success, that he was moved to create a full line of cosmetics and skincare, for which he photographed it’s earliest campaigns. Withthe launch of his first book, X-Ray, a photo expose of fashion’s elite and celebrity portraits, Francois lifted the veil of his world; and allowed others to see his natural ability to connect with and capture the inner beauty he sees within all his brush or lens has met. Here we had a chance to discover how the multi- faceted cosmetic king has successfully been making others shine for so long.

Growing up, was there a seminal moment that inspired you to become a makeup artist?

I’m not sure if there was a single moment, but when I was quite young, I was obsessed with fashion. I was very lucky to have an extremely beautiful, glamorous and elegant mother, on which I was able to practice makeup. But in a funny way she never wore a lot of makeup. I think that’s where my love for natural looking, very light makeup came from, as much as I love extreme makeup in photographs… my mother gave me the appreciation for natural beauty.

When you first began doing makeup, what was the hardest thing about breaking into the industry?

I had no connections, and the fashion world was a closed elite. My mother made appointments for herself with three top Parisian makeup artists and spoke highly about me – she was my first publicist! She was so beautiful and elegant that they must have figured that her son had taste, and one offered me a job as an assistant.

What is the biggest change that you have seen happen within the beauty industry since you have entered it?

There has been an incredible evolution of makeup. Women are learning and experimenting more. Magazines, professional artists, and of course the freedom of fashion are helping women to make fewer mistakes. I think NARS especially has pushed women to have fun while still keeping their look sophisticated.

Isabella Rosselini, actress, photograph by François NARS, 2009, previously published in NARS 15X15 | Image credit: Nars Cosmetics

Are there any photographers’ work or favorite photoshoots that influenced your desire to become a makeup artist?

I started seeing Guy Bourdin’s work at a very young age, around when I was 10 or 11 years old. My mother use to always read French Vogue in the late 60’s early 70’s, and it was extremely creative, with works by fabulous photographers such as Helmut Newton and Guy Bourdin. All those images woke me up to a certain sense of color, makeup and artistry. I didn’t know anything about photography at that time, but I had a very, very strong attraction to those images. It was around that time that I knew that world was something I wanted to be a part of and make mine. It was from that age to my graduation that I knew I wanted to become either a photographer or a makeup artist, either way; it definitely had to be in the fashion industry.

When did you decide to explore the photography side of your creativity? Was there any one person or event that gave you the confidence to decide to start shooting your own Nars makeup campaigns?

When I first launched NARS, we didn’t have the budget to hire somebody so I thought, ‘What the hell. Give me a camera.’ It wasn’t easy and took a lot of work and concentration, but I was used to working with so many photographers – Avedon, Penn, Newton, Meisel. And many times Meisel would invite me to look in the camera and that helped a lot.

Do you have a creative mentor that influenced your career path?

There are so many icons that have inspired me. I had a huge crush and obsession with Yves Saint Laurent when I was younger. He’s always been a huge inspiration for me when it comes to style and creativity, elegance and beauty. Actresses have always been so important to my creative inspiration process. Garbo and Dietrich were incredibly inspiring. I remember staying up very late at night when I was a kid watching those fabulous silent movies. I was already learning about makeup, light and style. And of course photographers. Man Ray is one of my favorites of all time.

Tell us about your favorite collaborations and why they were your favorite?

Each collaboration is special, but Guy heavily influenced me in my career as a makeup artist and a photographer. I have paid tribute to him many times in the past. 2013 was the right time for us to do the collaboration, but it could have been five years ago or five years from today because his work will always be relevant.

NARS Fall 2011 campaign, model Mariacarla Boscono, photograph by François Nars | Image credit: Nars Cosmetics

Risks are important to take in art and business for the growth they bring about. How do you personally define risk?

I am not afraid of risks, and I owe a lot of my success to risk-taking. I like to push boundaries. I like the idea of taking something that may be controversial and bringing it to a different level. I think it’s a symbol of freedom to be able to push; it allows you to express yourself in any way you want. No matter what you do – fashion, art – any field, it’s so important to be as free as possible because that is where great things are created.

What’s the biggest risk that you’ve ever taken (either creatively or in business)?

Starting my own makeup line was certainly the biggest risk I’ve ever taken. It’s always very stressful when you
start something new. You’re excited but terrified at the same time because you never know what the public response is going to be. It was the hardest, but most rewarding and exciting thing I’ve ever done.

What has helped you to balance so many creative roles in your career? Do you feel they are all integrated (creative director, makeup artist, photographer)?

It was when I started NARS that I picked up the camera professionally. I felt I didn’t want to be stuck just creating makeup, I needed more in my life, and I felt like I could do something else. I had worked with the best photographers in the world, Avedon, Penn, Meisel, all those big legends so it was like being schooled. I learned so much about photography over the 20 years of doing makeup; watching how they worked and watching the light, watching the sensibility. I captured it very quickly. I was creating the makeup and then photographing it so it was very, very linked.

Is there one role that you prefer over the other? If so, what is it and why?

I love makeup and I love photography. I couldn’t choose. So for now I’m here to inspire the NARS team, provide the vision and the creative direction for what I think the brand should be – a fun brand with great products.

Does the pace and demand of the industry ever prove a challenge in remaining creative and original?

I’m always reinventing, never settling for the same thing. We are constantly moving and looking forward, we try not to create the same thing twice. It’s important to be open minded and fresh, never boring.

NARS 1996 campaign, model Karen Park Goude, photograph by François Nars | Image credit: Nars Cosmetics

In previous interviews you have said that you cannot help but be nostalgic, what is it that you miss most about those “early days”?

It feels like yesterday that I started NARS. For me, the concept of time is very abstract. There is a certain point in your life when you start losing track of time; I don’t calculate the years. I’ve hit the point in my life where I try not to look back;
I look forward to the future. It’s been a great ride so far and I hope it continues.

You took a ten year break from doing makeup for the runway collections reemerging for the Marc Jacobs show in 2009. Why the long hiatus and why for the MJ show?

Returning to fashion shows in 2009, I wanted to bring a new eye to beauty. The vision of makeup at New York fashion week at that time was very natural, subdued. Marc Jacobs was the perfect partner to help change that—the theme for his show was ‘New York by night in the 80s.’ Not only have we known each other since the beginning of our careers, but we lived through that era together, and were finally able to bring that energy back. We changed the mood by creating strong, bold, theatrical looks with a twist of night-clubbing.

You’ve always been known for your strong sense of color, not to mention the playful, bold, and coy color names. What color trends are happening at the moment?

The palette of my new fall collection is soft and warm and the textures are either shimmery and iridescent or totally matte. There’s a suede-like quality to the colors and textures that just felt very fresh and modern to me. The red lip balances out the softer shades on eyes and cheeks—and signals that this is fall.

Are they inspired by anything specifically?

The fall shades and campaign are “inspired by was Pam Grier in ‘70s films like Coffy and Foxy Brown. The characters she played in those movies were strong and assertive; and her look was tough, but at the same time never hard. Instead of a lot of color, her makeup was more natural. The campaign references those characters and that time period with the contouring on the cheeks and the more natural palette.

NARS 1996 campaign, model Alec Weck, photograph by François Nars | Image credit: Nars Cosmetics

How do you continue to create new names for your colors? What things do you reference to come up with fun new names?

I keep a little Hermes book that I write in 24 hours a day–even the middle of the night. It is important that that the colors have an identity and the names help give them that identity. It makes you dream a little bit.

How do you continue to create with fresh perspective after being in the beauty business for over two decades?

Everything inspires me. I am inspired by beauty. It could be from nature, from music, fashion, books or movies. I love old Hollywood and old European films from the start of the film industry up through the 70’s. I also like Italian, American, and French movies. I am inspired by many, many, different things – even the streets. I love traveling as well. I’m touched by many things when I create colors. I also like books that are related to the arts. And painters! Picasso and Matisse. And, opera…Verdi and Puccini.

Are there any projects that you’ve been working on that you are excited to share?

I am currently working on new celebrity portrait book which is a follow up of my first book of photography, X-Ray.

New product releases?

I am very excited about the NARS holiday collection, which is a collaboration with Sarah Moon. Sarah is an amazing fashion photographer. Her love of fashion and beauty combined really create the stunning images she captures.

Tell us about the new store opening in Houston? What can visitors expect to find that might surprise them?

Our boutiques are meant to be inviting. Clients should walk in and want to play – with the makeup, the objects on our book shelf – it’s a home for makeup artists and fans to explore color and texture. All of our boutiques have a bookshelf with objects that I’ve hand-selected – books from Richard Avedon, Paul Gaguin and Henry Miller and films from over the years (like Fellini’s La Dolce Vita!) – all the things that have and continue to inspire my work. They also rotate seasonally so our clients can always find something new.

Naomi Campbell, model, photograph by François Nars, 2009, previously published in NARS 15X15 | Image credit: Nars Cosmetics

Why did you decide to open in Houston and why now?

There is a great energy in Houston, and I wanted to introduce a boutique where fans can experience the brand in a way that brings out the true spirit of NARS. It’s a home for makeup artists and fans to explore color and play with texture –to dream and be inspired.

Where do you like to go when you want to relax and recharge?

I visited Le Pilat in the South of France this past summer for the first time. It has these amazing sand dunes which are very rare in that area. It’s a beautiful place and not very well-known, which I like. And of course, Bora Bora will always be a special place for me. I find so much inspiration when I’m there. There is beauty in everything.

What do you see for yourself in the future as an artist and creative person? What’s your next step?

I never think too much about the future. I work a few months in advance because I have to, but for the most part, I take it day by day. I celebrate the past but live in the moment.

Do you have any words of wisdom that have helped guide you to be the creative industry leader you are today?

Try to be happy as often as possible. It’s a very simple motto but it’s not so easy to achieve. That’s what I try to do as much as I can.

Interview by Dustin Mansyur